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Seat, Tank and Rear Fender
- Overview
- August 22nd - Mockup
- September 13th Update - back from the welders
- October 2 Update - Caswell Tank Sealant
- October 11 Update - Mini-Roll out
As mentioned earlier there are a few snags resulting from having decided to do the rear disc conversion using the GS swing arm. Although both models have about the same overall length (87.2 inches or 221.5 cm for the GT750 versus 87.6 inches or 222.5 cm for the GS750) the GS750 swing arm is roughly 3 inches (or about 8 cm) longer than the swing arm on the GT750, and has just over an inch (3 cm) of additional wheelbase . I suspect this is a good thing, as it should improve the tracking and overall handling, and also there is room now to perhaps install a larger rear tire. The downside is that the arc that the rear wheel travels doesn't look right with the stock GT750 rear fender, and as well it also means there is no easy way to use a stock GT750 exhaust system as the indents for the rear axel nuts are in the wrong place (too far forward). I had planned to use a rear deck and fender off a 1978 GS750, and luckily I had a set of aftermarket Gibson pipes I could use in place of the stock exhaust so I did not initially think this would be a major problem, however I was wrong. In the end, it did result in a number of frame modifications being required for the rear fender mount, the seat and the tank, as well as of the tank itself.
The problem then, is having started as I did from the rear of the bike to try and get the rear fender to look right with the arc of new swing arm, and extending the frame to allow the rear deck to be mounted in the same manner as the GS750 stock frame, once I have the seat mounted there is a 3 to 4 inch gap to be filled in some way, either between the front edge of the seat and the rear of the tank, or between the rear of the seat and the rear deck being mounted on the fender. You can actually see it clearly in the photo below as being the gap (yellow lines) between the scrap rear fender off a GS750 that I'm using for clearance checks as I fab up the frame mount extensions, and the original inner fender that come stock with the GT750.
I'm tending toward modifying the tank and have mocked up what it might look like in the photo below. Lengthening the GT750 tank actually makes it about the same length as a GS750 tank, and together with the rear deck makes it appear a bit more modern.. At the moment, I'm waiting for a few parts to arrive before finalising the changes, but I expect to make a decision in about two weeks.
August 22, 2008 Update
I have finalised the design, and have arranged to take the frame in to The Welding Shop here in Calgary - the tank will have to be steamed out before welding, but this isn't too difficult to arrange. I have cut off all the tabs for the GT750 inner fender mount, as well as the old seat hinge mounts and have either created new mounting tabs based on the GS750E measurements, or have adapted/modified GS750E mounts to suit. At the moment, I'm just waiting for Cactus Machine to finish the work on the new brake lever as they have the sleeve which is to be welded in for the rear brake actuator.
The frame with the tank extension and the mounting tabs has been sandblasted (you can read about that here) and I've included a photo to the left of how it looks currently. The masking tape that you can see marks the location of the new tabs and mounting points for the relocated inner and rear fenders, rear deck, seat and new master cylinder for the new rear disc brake.
I plan to start work on the engine this coming week.
September 13th, 2008 Update
The frame and tank are back from The Welding Shop, and as well I have finished off the shaping, filling and priming of the tank so it is now ready for the next couple of steps - these being sealing, and then finish coat painting. As well, I have double checked the location of the mounting tabs for the seat hinges and rear deck and will need to make a couple of minor changes. Over all, I wasn't happy with how the GS750 seat sat on the GT750 frame - it was a bit too high, so I've modified the rubber bushes that fit into the underside of the seat and which rest on the frame members. This has let me drop the seat about 3/8th of an inch, and overall I think it looks better as a result. I also have decided to raise the rear deck slightly at the rear which means I'll need to relocate the mounting tabs from where I had originally planned, either by welding new ones, or more probably by just fabbing up a couple of small brackets.
In the left photo below, you can see how I've stretched out the GT750 tank, as compared to the stock shape along side it. In the middle photo you can see how things line up when mounted - the rear deck is off a 1978 GS750E, the seat likewise and the tank is from 1976 GT750, and which has been modified. The overall line is very close to that in the photo of the GS750 at the top of this page. To the right is a photo of the tank lining kit I plan to use this week to seal the inside of the tank and ensure everything is leak proof and (hopefully) will stay rust free.
There are many products on the market for sealing gas tanks - and these days it is complicated somewhat by the introduction of ethanol into gasolines making the fuel more corrosive. Some tank lining products, used for example in aircraft and which have been used in some cases for motorcycles will work fine on pure gasoline/petrol fuels, but will actually dissolve if exposed for a prolonged period to newer bio-fuel mixes. There is some very good information available in the press and via the internet on the effects of ethanol on older equipment so do some homework. After reading what I could find, I went with the Caswell product (the American link is here and then just search the site for 'Gas Tank Sealer' for those folks from outside of Canada) and we'll see how it goes.
Update: Caswell Canada no longer supplies the product I used, although they do still sell it in the US. In Canada they now offer several products, all epoxy based. For my 1973 GT750 project, I used a local radiator shop which cost more, but also came with a guarantee.
October 2nd, 2008 Update - Caswell Tank Sealant
I won't duplicate what you can find elsewhere on the web about the use of epoxy fuel tank liners - please see the previous note above - but I must say that I smiled to myself when I was mixing in the catalyst as all I could think about was my previous experience with two part resin/catalyst experiments in the Sandy household. When I was a teenager, my brother and I helped my Dad fiberglass a sailboat we were building in the basement of our house in Ontario - as we laid down the mixed resin and glass mats, invariably we would run out of time and the mixture would start to set, the container it was in would get too hot to hold, the smell was incredible (as I think back on it, I'm sure we were all higher than kites on the fumes) and my Dad would be rushing around at the last moment trying to apply rapidly solidifying gel that was turning into solid plastic so fast you had to be careful your hands didn't become permanent deck fixtures ! I have to report that my Caswell experience was not nearly as exciting, so just a very few comments:
- The GT750 tank has several ridges on its underside that are difficult to get well coated inside the tank. You can see them in the photo to the right running left to right in the area of the tank that would sit immediately above the frame. I used a small brush, and tried to coat what I could reach as best I could through the filler opening, but I suspect this was not entirely successful
- My tank had been steam cleaned, but I still followed the instructions that came with the Caswell kit, and rinsed out the inside of the tank with water, ensured it was well, dried (I used an old vacuum cleaner that has a blower option, so I had a good stream of warm air blowing inside the tank), then rinsed it again with lacquer thinners and a handful of screws (to knock loose any rust flakes etc.) and again made sure it was well dried
- I made a small plate from scrap metal to fit the fuel petcock opening and used some old inner tube as a gasket - it worked fine. For the fuel filler opening, I just used an old filler cap and some Saran wrap (called cling wrap or Glad wrap in other countries) - the instructions say to use Saran wrap held in place with elastics, but the filler neck design doesn't lend itself to doing this as you can't easily make the elastics stay on
- You can't easily drain either cleaning solvent or excess epoxy from the tank - and getting all the screws out took a while. The fuel filler opening has a sleeve on the inside of the tank making drainage via the filler opening impossible, and as the bottom of the tank is pretty well flat on both sides of the centre of the tank where is it raised to clear the frame (you can see this clearly in the previously mentioned photo to the right), getting good drainage via the small fuel petcock opening is not really easy either.
- The Caswell tank sealer seems to be quite temperature sensitive, and you do need to have a relatively warm work area, otherwise the mixture is too viscous and doesn't flow well on the inside of the tank. I ended up doing two applications, as I was not happy with the first attempt - each kit provides enough material to do one application to two average sized tanks, or two applications to the same tank. After the first application, when I checked what little I could see of the inside of the tank with a mirror and a strong light, there were clearly several areas that had not been covered at all. My first application was at about 20C and so for my second attempt, I made sure everything was a toasty 24C, and the mixture was noticeably thinner and spread much more readily inside the tank - without a scope, it is impossible to tell if the inside of the tank really is fully coated, but at least the little bit that I can see does now look pretty good.
- There was no odour at all - doing this process inside the house would not be a problem
- You have lots of time - the mixture does not start to kick off for about 40 to 60 minutes, so there was no frantic rushing around required ! And once it does start to set, there is a long 'rubbery' period that gives you time to clean out any openings or threads if you want to - and I also noted that lacquer thinners will remove any spillage or smears from the outside of the tank if that should be required, and if you are careful and perhaps a bit lucky, it will not damage the paint.
- it would be nice if the mixture was tinted, as it would make it easier to see whether you have got good coverage, plus as the mixture is transparent what I can see now inside the tank is epoxied rusty metal. If I were to do this again, I would try to find
a suitable colour tint to make the finished tank look a bit more professional.
- Update January 2015 - the new products from Caswell are now tinted in both black and bright red so problem solved.
Bottom line - from what I can see, I do now have a good coating of epoxy on the areas of the inside of the tank, so I'm finally ready to start painting !
October 11 Update - Mini-Roll out
Today marked a small milestone as I fitted up the painted side covers, tank and tail piece to the frame to check the fit and clearances one last time. Of course I'm biased, but I like how it looks. Below to the far left is what a late 1978/early 1979 GS750 looked like, to the middle and right you see how the GT750 is shaping up.
Extending the GT750 frame has preserved the correct arc for the rear wheel, and stretching out the tank and changing the seat level actually results in quite a comfortable riding position. As well, the line through the front reflector to the rear tail light is a close match for that of the factory GS750 which is the look I was aiming for. An obvious big difference is the wheels - the 1977 GS750B and 1978 GS750C both had spoked wheels, but the 1978 GS750EC had the 'snowflake' pattern mag wheels - I may still decide to add a set to the project bike, as I do like the look of them.
I have a set of decals for the striping on the tank and rear tail piece coming from Reproduction Decals in eastern Canada which should be here sometime next week. I admit I find them a bit annoying to deal with as they are a Canadian company but price everything in US dollars so when the Canadian dollar is down, as it is this week, they are effectively making a bit of a windfall on both Canadian as well as US buyers. I will order the new tank badges and side cover badges from Badge Replica in Australia as the price is more reasonable and, the parts appear to be identical to what is offered by Reproduction Decals in Canada.
At the moment, I'm just waiting for a few more bits and pieces to arrive before I can get serious with the engine !
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